THE IRAN--CONTRA HEARINGS : Excerpts: ‘A Big Network of People and Companies and Bank Accounts’

\o7 WASHINGTON\f7 â€”  Following are excerpts from testimony Tuesday by Assistant Secretary of State Elliott Abrams before the congressional committees that are investigating the Iran-contra affair:

Working With North

(Abrams was asked by deputy Senate counsel Mark A. Belnick about his working relationship with Lt. Col. Oliver L. North, the fired National Security Council aide who helped direct private efforts to support the Nicaraguan rebels when government assistance was illegal.)

Question: You worked closely with Col. North on Central-American matters, correct?

Answer: That is correct.

Q: . . . You believed that Col. North had more information about the private network that was supplying the contras, even than the CIA knew. Am I correct?

A: Correct.

Q: And he was the closest person, so far as you could tell, . . . to the private benefactors who were raising funds in the country in support of the Nicaraguan freedom fighters. Correct?

A: That’s correct . . . .

Q: Now, during your period from July, 1985, through October, 1986, what did you know concerning the nature of Col. North’s efforts regarding fund raising in this country on behalf of the contras?

A: I knew that he knew more about it than we in the (State) Department did, and that he seemed to know more about it than CIA did. He once told me, for example, that there was a big network out there of people and companies and bank accounts, which nobody else ever said to me . . . .

Q: . . . Did you ask him for details about that big network?

A: No.

Q: Ask him about the bank accounts (into which privately raised funds for the contras were secretly deposited) or how he knew about them?

A: No.

Q: Why not?

A: I was not his supervisor. He worked for a different agency. . . . I did ask him at a couple of occasions, and I cannot place the exact dates, whether he was abiding by the law, and on one occasion in particular, I remember he said, “I have never solicited a nickel.� He may have said, “a dime.� “I am not breaking a law, I have checked with White House counsel.� Or, I’m not quoting, but words to that effect. . . .

Q: Do you recall what it was that caused you to go to Col. North and ask him if what he was doing was legal?

A: I assume it was one of these press reports.

Q: Do you recall whether the secretary of state shared your view that it was best for you not to ask or to know what Col. North was doing specifically?

A: We had a conversation in--around Labor Day, 1985, in which, and my memory is that I said something to him like: “All these accusations about Col. North, do you want me to try to find out whether they’re true and what he’s up to? Or, do you want me to sort of leave that?� And he said, “No, you’ve got to know.� The note that I have in my notebook says: “Monitor Ollie. . . . “

Q: Did you tell the secretary of state at that meeting that you didn’t think you needed to monitor Ollie, or that you believed you had already monitored him sufficiently by asking him whether he was soliciting and hearing that he wasn’t?

A: No, because that wasn’t true.

Q: All right.

A: “Monitor Ollie� is not an activity that you do one morning. It is a--

Q: That’s for sure.

A: It is a behavior pattern, let’s put it that way. And again, I think that I did that . . . .

Q: . . . Did you ever ask him, though, for specifics about what his connection was with the private network that was supplying the contras?

A: Not in so many words. I thought I knew what he was doing. I thought that he was--well, the best word is “monitoring.�

Soliciting Money

(Belnick asked Abrams about meeting with a Brunei official in London to solicit money from the Sultan of Brunei to help the contras.)

Q: And you were to use the name Mr. Kenilworth?

A: Well, I traveled under my name, with my passport, plane reservation, hotel reservation, so forth. But the governor of Brunei suggested that when I actually telephoned the official with whom I was to speak, I not use my name because they assumed the telephones were being monitored.

Q: . . . You met him in the park?

A: Well, I met him in a hotel, but then we took a walk.

Q: And what did you say to him during that walk in the park?

A: I started by giving a speech which I have given many times, which explains U.S. policy in Central America. . . .

(Then Abrams said he told the official that money was needed as “kind of a bridge� until Congress appropriated funds for the contras.)

Q: What did he say?

A: I believe he asked me how much money.

Q: And did you tell him?

A: I said $10 million.

Q: And what did he say in response to that?

A: Either at that point or a later point he said that they would have to--if they decided to do it, they’d have to do it from Brunei because they didn’t have access to that kind of money when they were traveling.

Q: Did he explain to you why the government of Brunei would be interested in making this contribution to the Nicaraguan contras?

A: Well, I tried to explain to him why I thought they should, just because they should be interested in the security of the U.S. He said to me: “What do we get out of this? What’s in it for us?� And I said, “Well,�--I actually had not thought about that question much--and I said, “Well, you will--the President will know of this, and you will have the gratitude of the secretary (of state) and of the President for helping us out in this jam.� And he said, “But what concrete do we get out of this?� And I said, “You don’t get anything concrete out of it.�

(Abrams was asked about events that transpired after Sandinista forces in October, 1986, shot down a contra resupply plane whose crew included three Americans.)

Q: Now, when you spoke to Col. North after the shoot down, and after you had begun making your (public) statements that there was no U.S. government involvement, did you ask him whether there was any U.S. government involvement in the flight?

A: Did I say flat out? No.

Q: Did you ask Col. North if he himself had any involvement in that flight?

A: No, sir. . . .

Q: Now you felt, didn’t you, at the time that, based on your knowledge, Col. North was likely to be the official in the U.S. government who would have the most information about this flight, if anyone in the government would? Wasn’t that your belief?

A: Oh, probably. . . .

Q: . . . The question that did not come up was whether North himself was involved or whether he knew if the U.S. government was involved in any way, correct?

A: I don’t think I asked that question specifically. It was very clear that that would have been completely contradictory to what he had previously told me.